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tv   Book TV After Words  CSPAN  January 16, 2012 12:00am-1:00am EST

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he spent winter in the rockies and almost froze to death. it ended up being a nine event although it did get a pikes peak. >> a fascinating story about how meriwether lewis was on the way back to washington d.c. to give testimony. there is a conspiracy part of that is through to damage will consent and burr through that action that those two individuals hired assassins to kill him. is that a story? >> it is a story. h . .
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burr was in europe. i think it is hard to tar him with that one. and lewis' death was mysterious although there is a lot of evidence that he just killed himself bing despond them. wilkinson was accused of poisoning mad anthony wayne -- matt anthony wayne the great general and has been tarred with the lewis story. i've not seen at the -- any evidence. .. he wasn't particularly concerned about that. about the session and as he
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said, the unintended consequence is worth i.t. make concession, that seems like he was so popular. as you mentioned is in new york. you think about the federalists and the harper commission talking about it as well. did they think about the session in constitutional terms are just as some thing that is in the american blood, that they essentially again.lod tha >> okay, well that is a lot. i'll feel better quickly if i can.just to deal the session was w economically motivated of the new england session was economically motivated, and was because of the embargo that was in place in the economy during the war 1812 and they didn't support the war. i still think it was very
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important that he failed and secession was put in. he was viewed as the worst criminal in history other than mcdonald. of course when the southern slavery issue reached, secession came back but when you look at the previous period once the succession is in the activity as a plan ready to see a difference jefferson's inactivity he never explained it. he may not have believed some of the reports he received about the activity. he may well have thought that he would feel if his own and was ridiculous a plan. and in fact other words he says in europe they would have sent troops after something like this and in this country it's simply the people rejected it and it failed on its own weight and there was truth to that and to
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be honest it still more because it just sort of trouble about. but i don't have a
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>> host: chris matthews, welcomed. we've been friends for what, 35 years? talk about a man who stayed in history for most of america. from john candy looked like in the flesh. so it is your right to spout? casco first of all, that may be true what you say in terms of fresh memory, that they asked people who's coming here two years ago. "vanity fair." you should be a small brush fire cannot begin out fdr and reagan. in terms of heroic stature, he's there. he's the president of the to and not goes back to the heroism of saving the crew come in the cuban missile crisis, getting through that without a nuclear war. i think a lot of it has to heroic stature. the people steal to have in their mind. he's still there in our hearts as well and although you may not come to mind, when he does come to mind,
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>> host: let's talk later about kennedy the president. what he did right, what he did wrong. kennedy and man, who was >> guest: that's the question i wanted to get to. not that it's been, not the president, but the guy, the person and come to who'd hang around with, the one unit to high school with. jackie when he was killed stretcher expenditure has been chief said he was a sick young kid who was alone all the time, always reading around his heroes. he was never helps. and said he was still a sick young kid, when i went back he got the nose for the interview. she added on that are not good and bad as teddy reported that batting good. his mother never loved him. she's trying to expand this guy who was her husband. unfaithful to her, but she was
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trying to find him as the guy himself. and what she found was basically a young kid looked up as an church outcome nature shows writing and wanting perhaps to be one of those tears sunday. for she saw him that way normally, scared. he had leukemia off your high skill. he thought he had a death sentence he'd never be able to escape. >> joe kennedy the patriarch. the man who ran that family and other people understand that we are told. jack kennedy was the second son. it was joe who was supposed to follow and do some reading they couldn't do because he killed himself with open anti-semitism. it's not the worst hertfordshire spiegel. he was openly wedded bliss.
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tribalistic. and he basically was finished. he wanted show gender to be his god, his "avatar," his person, to get over the line past the catholic issue and become president. well, he was killed in the work trying himself to the country. and jack moved up to the position. i discovered in the book is a business and the lengths he was the good of the service because he wanted to be a scholar or some type of journalists. think about jack kennedy. did you think he was going to seven class with kids are suddenly writing book summer alone? no. going back to high school, he brought churchill and "the new york times" according to his post every day. he got a copy mailed to him and since has been trying to figure out each issue in each article and distillates meeting. he ran for student council of the first year.
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he intended to go to law school. winners in the navy metallic touch about the state and local politics. on the indications are from his friends, charlie bartlett. he was headed for a political career. this was not true. the miniature was killed, he was there. >> host: so, his father was ambassador in saint churns and monday and could do with adolf hitler. and the second son has jackie describe as all of those things and weak in some respects he said no, dad, you're wrong. and he cut his fathers like that because his father was somewhat agree with them. he said yes, britain was justified munich and 38 because they were ready to fight. but they should have been ready to fight and baldwin thought of not taking i'm not the threat seriously. i 38 they were launching what he called the locust aid. they were ready to fight the not
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these and kennedy drafted cleaned up by arthur crock. he wrote basically they were ready to fight. retired well better well be ready to fight consists to become a world war. i think it's fair to say he did not want to fight the. he seemed to do nothing to this guy. what is happening is the final solution. they are being picked to come and taken away, deported he is the stuff is on. and jack was pretty good on that front. he was of a certain name and not that certain is where particularly good. there's a point later on in his career for eddie o'donnell said he wanted to put out a letter saying dumping on the jewish leader. don't ever send us that letter.
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we've got to think of the future. and secondly, i love the fine. these people have problems still never understand. he had tremendous emphasis for history. >> there is a popular view so that he was reluctant. his brother show had been killed. the airplane blew up and his father had to say no, you're going to run for office. >> guest: well, one of his war buddies set that is how he would shannon. he was told that case. you know the world were two guys, they never want to put an addition that unseemly. the old man wants me to run for congress. everybody close to this is her into go. he call. and by the way, here's your question. you ever hear of anybody or need anybody who was tossed into a
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political career. remember the only thing that gets rid of it as formaldehyde. i mean, anything you. jack wanted to be successful. >> the guy who says i have no plans to run for president e. he had his speech in his pocket already. just go today was open edition. he was very much a world war ii man. don't complain, don't explain. don't complain about posting submissions, but don't explain it later on. don't brag about the war. >> host: let's talk about boston politics. definitely knew the district and there's this wonderful story puts the kind of ballot names as the guy who battled -- >> guest: that was joe russo. i knew that from working tip of the series. the irish get the biggest tickle
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of stepping on the fingers that the italians right below them on the latter. they're coming up right behind them. count the number of elected congress. it's the largest. the irish bloke wanting to see them and holding onto them good job call joe russo and then another guy for 20 bucks call joe russo. the clean trick by the way. a clean, legal trick. it's not a dirty trick. there is a difference. but also jack had a couple other likely opponent as mayor of other cities. all the local guys and you come in second never repaired either way, coming back in the war with his heroic. a service and saving his crew, which were well advertised or the old man. there is nobody else on the ballot even touched it. that was an election that nixon wanted. all those guys came in 46, but
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it got from war. and if you hadn't served, not a problem. >> host: against henry cabot lodge, great family name. >> guest: and really a great name. what was wrong with him? there is nothing wrong with henry cabot lodge. >> host: how does that happen? >> guest: the kennedy people worked with kenny o'donnell, what they did was they realize that, the old way of running massachusetts at the republican you ran from outside. and if you're boston for a curly or one of his old tricks can be ran from the city. but the kennedy people discovered was a lot of people go in to law school or harvard law and move out of the boston area into the burbs where they may be 20% or 30% of the population. they were quiet. they were big ready guys. they were independent voters who would vote democrat or
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republican. select kennedy was else. going into communities where they were modernity is, they were they are. saturday then in. been there before. you're not coming there for the first time. they dealt with those and that's why don't we have the watch. why do we have to watch the yankees? discuss classy. he's got a war record and they convinced him he is somebody from their world that was as good as the protestant world. and that was the tougher to crack to convince the irish to work for an irish man. this is the same in the 1960s when they didn't think an irishman could get effective president. that was an interesting thing.
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>> host: u.s.a. is the irish connection, the irish family. part of his drive was to show that the irish -- go well i love this story. the very rich, posh school up there giving the convention last year. and it used to be all yankees. i mean, there are before us and thank you families like adlai stevenson. people like that. the headmaster didn't particularly like, but he have to put up with them. that's the way it works with the kids at the money you have to let in. and joe kennedy got his kids in there. one day the headmaster george saint john was giving a chapel speech sermon about the kids in the race. but some were troublemakers. mockers had a couple meanings. one of them as irish trash, the
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ones who cleaned up the horsemen who were in the wagon in boston and kennedy heard that. would it be to? they did nothing and the old men cannot see them and they got in trouble and fell for it is that if you are really my son, he wouldn't have begun that. so that was the old man who comes in and takes her aside. but he pointed to a couple film projectors in that school. >> host: by the way, only like to kid who were wheeled, whose fathers had so much money they couldn't be kicked out. the party taken politically. >> they ask not what your country can do for you. and you say in your book goes that he got it from the headmaster and the archives and the irish have now taken over show. and eileen -- i'm sorry, link
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connolly is a wonderful women who said the headmaster with shanahan. i get up there, meet the arc of his preachy very hesitantly me a loosely look. i open it up and on the right-hand side is the chapel notice from george saint john's. and it was a couple of sermons. right below something called dean gray, which was an essay written by his hero, the former term of the 19th century, dean of studies at harvard. it ended with the following phrase. when i read it i could not believe i had found it, the rosetta stone here. , the rosetta stone here. , but what i can do for her. it is a direct quote. and sorensen, who is kennedy's chief speechwriter came back to that. but not even he had gone back
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and found it because he said it wasn't any record of that. at the time kennedy gave his speech, he was so aroused as some of the projects that republican state feature is the in st. john's. so i don't know what he supposed to say. as may headmaster once said, paraphrased. he obviously took it and is able to find it. i put it in the book with an actual copy. >> host: the late ted sorensen used to say, teacher that did john kennedy write the famous language? bacher of the family crazy because they thought he would say i wrote it. better member vicki kennedy said today when i told her i think i would trade that sent back, that he had written it any other suggested a lot.
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the kennedy from 56 to 60 commuters to young guys guys in their 30s. he was only in his 20s at that time, traveling the country, all around the country just to show giving the speech is in listening to jackie and finding that in writing it again. and the speeches were very well delivered. they were very well. there is only 60 or so i would start. >> host: i was in in this town until two years after, but i was were in the 50s and what do i remember from that era, talking to guys who were around? he married jackie. he almost died. someone wrote the book. >> guest: i think sorensen wrote it. i think if you read it again, i remember reading it years ago
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and thinking the introduction, perhaps the idiomatic chacko politicians because it's a sympathetic things the speechwriter would write. only in this profession -- >> were expected to do things like that against your interests. what other profession or sister act against your interest. he voted for it the passage to the people and it cut off the boston harbor from commercial activity. the locals that they are, who are always better about things say it's because the merchandise part in chicago. he's showing up for the old man and they're really angry. so he sat down with him and said we've got to do a magazine article and show the national courage. that's when it started and it evolved organically into a
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bigger boat. he didn't write it. if you listen to what sorensen wrote before he died in what he told me, he was only a 28-year-old worker. he didn't know any history. i think it's pretty safe kennedy had all the history, figured it all out. but month after month actually drafted it. but in kennedy's letters, very beautifully written. he takes six pages of beautifully written letters without any problem. that was his most dashing -- they're all gorgeous girlfriends, that she was a danish, gorgeous creature you might say, a movie actor. she was married a second time when he was having a relationship with her. she got her picture taken because he had taken a fancy to
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her. whatever his histories great deal. and he just thought she was the greatest looking nordic women are found. and she was. she looked like a poster of a blonde, gorgeous women. she had these aquiline features and jack was totally smitten with her. his best friend at the time said it was the most part of the relationship you ever seen. >> host: jay edgar hoover said she was spy. >> guest: jack was a navy intelligence. here he is a young naval was suspected per not be, going out with these blonde nordic women who'd been seen in a photograph. basically we have evidence of probable cause? they sent kennedy down to charleston to get away from them. they said they shagged my asked undercurrent in because they
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thought i was hanging around with a nazi spy. they spent four days together in the hotel. the only time they came out from there series of living together down there is basically for a couple late-night meals can go to mass. that is so jacked and they both went to mass together on broad street down there in beautiful charleston. it just shows as they came across throughout the book and think about after it that the, jack was a devotional catholic who prayed every night at his bedside. jackie would laugh and say how superstitious he was. he told me at night and the editors said tuesday they told you because you act like you believe it. jackie said annotates condescendingly because she was very secular. she was a very religious. and then i found out from her
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closest friend he said even during traveling through europe, he would pray every night by his bedside. jack was a devotional catholic who also was what he was. it was very complicated. >> host: let's talk about the women. let's talk about the women during that area. there statistics out there to try to put toward how many. by what he do that? >> guest: well, something that they said a few moments ago his wife tried to figure out because she said his mother never loved him. and the way of trying to figured it out. i think she attributed to the way men were in those days. jackie was not only a woman of the early 60s, late 50s experience for men really were in charge. but rachel millner come a close
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friend told me that she really grew up in that both in the world for after dinner that men would go to the room together and smoke cigars and talk about their girls. they kept secrets from the women. women often talked about what they talked about, but they are always denied access. in fact, jackie said when her husband was killed, i'm going to keep caroling come up a listen. the only way to interpret that as he would go to the secret world where bill graham and the rest all knew everybody's girlfriend. remember? and they kept a secret. the other part of it was, this is who he was. the old man chased women. corey swanson -- there's a wonderful story. bruce kennedy and joe kennedy or an ocean liner on the queen elizabeth across the atlantic. you won't believe who's on
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above. and joe had set it up where he had a girlfriend on the boat with him for the five day trip. this is the kind of stuff that was outrageous. this behavior in a day when men could get away with it. >> until 1997 where he jumped in the tidal basin. the press didn't write about it. >> guest: by the way, he didn't know anybody really who could do investigative pieces are put any resources and taking up into someone's private life. >> host: i know a lot of other candidate. >> guest: at burnley have mousers press conference at a downtown hotel. even "the new york times" on page 56. there's an indictment for some kind of discovery. it's sort of thrown at us. more than taken into this stuff. >> guest: host the women say to me, i want
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to make certain that i know about it. and with the political point, too. we really want to know the material about people. we had a debate at the end of 20 above in by one of the candidate pointed at the other guys. they've have open discussion. >> host: also, john kennedy wanted to be on the ticket. stephenson is open to the convention. he was already saying they're going to be president. >> guest: he'd only been sent here for three years or so. last strike for the third time in his life at that point. nixon was crying because the service station later became a curator. this guy told me in an interview that nixon was crying that night. he was in close to kennedy. he really liked them. and kennedy wanted to be
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thinking about that in the 50s. and he wanted to be stephenson. he had not to the party payer and kennedy wanted to be at 11:00 tonight stephen is on the nomination. he didn't like kiefer. kiefer was a drinker. he didn't have the nerve. stevenson was able to make a decision. he was always rethinking everything. well, maybe the other side and then maybe this site. he was that much of an ideologue either. so we said let's have a boat. what he was really trying to do according to the defenders as he wanted to focus on the fact that eisenhower who is up for reelection and they want to put the focus on who's the vice president. so this is a waste hearing and
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that nixon. and so, it's so important to have the president with all this mumbo-jumbo. so kennedy and 11 persist in going to going to run for vice president. because of his buddies and segregates them forward and says you could me award by the speech? then he starts going to carmine and running around desperately. it's a crazy campaign, but he ends up almost winning. he's moving ahead and then sam rayburn calls on oklahoma. the oklahoma governor who doesn't like kennedy. and kennedy just doesn't have it. he has a lot of strength in the south, but not enough. he also had ran in the primaries. he probably deserved it. the kennedy came so close.
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he said if i can get this close with no preparation, just think what i can do if i spent four years running for president. >> we don't have time to do the whole campaign because he went to get to his presidency. but there's these wonderful stories. what about the first state in chicago in the makeup you have in your boat. >> guest: first of all, kennedy took says to be very seriously. he's director of that. he wanted to know exactly where you stand, or the lighting is, he wanted to really get it fixed. nixon was afraid another path for them. kennedy spent hours as ambassador of each hotel in chicago. they're trying to get ready. he gets in there and sort of psych out nixon. yes do i make a quick nixon
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years is that i want any. they go back in the room when someone says a nixon, i'll put up or he puts it. yes this mexican standoff because they are both much of an because kennedy has left open the humphrey, his primary opponent for using makeup. today everybody uses that. apparently the lighting was just brutal. you had to use make. so bill wilson put the make up on secretly in the back room. nixon comes out there with this horrible stuff called lazy sheep that this guy put on it and it's like just pouring off of him on camera. not only that, the kennedy people said they like people that were very thin. so you could see nixon's legs wobble. the new nixon was in bad shape physically and they wanted that to be seen by the public out
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there. they were cruel and they also wanted to make sure they had to stand the whole time and they waited until the very last minute. as the lights are about to go on, he waits and waits. he hides in the screening room until five seconds before. he says what's going on here? second debate here in washington, nbc studios. nixon gets control. so he reaches a level of the temperature of the room to 40 degrees. it's a meat locker and kennedy arrives. my source on the story for tv guide. he goes racing down and find the guide and turned the thermostat. there's a nixon guy standing guard on the thermostat. he says if you don't get out of bed, let me turn that thing up to 65 or 70, i'm calling the police. so they had another stand out there and ended up compromising on the temperature. the whole idea was they didn't want nixon to sweat. so the nixon people had seen him sweat profusely in the first
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debate and they said were not going to let this happen again. they all knew what was going on. this kind of stuff is going on. >> host: you know as well as i do that we like it to be about ideas and judgment and background. presentation, presentation. >> guest: kennedy was sweat less, calm. the way he crossed his legs commendably he would look at nixon, every time he said some weird. they said he won the election because the way he looked at nixon, like what is this guy's story? every time kennedy says he remember nixon, his eyes would start over. and he couldn't stop his eyes and moving that way, which is what he did in the first debate in 1947 in pennsylvania. they had their first debate. they took the plane back -- first debate 1947.
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they took the train home at night and all night long they talked about the cold war. i always love that picture, wouldn't you? dixon on the bottom bunk. >> host: by the way, the first debate and you probably know it. after the debate they would down the street to find a payphone and jack kennedy or at a quarter from ted to act to beat the phone to call for dad to see how he did. susan control, but he still thinking about his father. >> guest: because his data was that he did great. >> host: he won election by what, 113 popular votes thanks to an chicago the old man, mayor daley and lyndon johnson bidding on the ticket. >> guest: with the help of a few good friends. >> host: we are about halfway through our program with chris
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matthews is great. let's not talk about kennedy and the president. all-star go with what you know is coming i hope. in "the new york times" in late november, wrote an op-ed piece. i'm going to quote from it. the first premises can be was a good president and might've been a great one. few serious historians take this view. at the last of camelot surviving stenographers and populates it is like chris mathews who works hard to gloss over the 35th president actual accomplishment. >> guest: .com and was very whimsical and ideological. the great thing is the record is there in the circus. you know, i think this president is fighting for reelection. i thought that the fact the you know you would do in a second term. look what was happening when he was killed. he got the civil rights bill, which we live by today, which outlaws jim crow.
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gas station, and then zoom in you can be there. that will he was fighting to get through the house judiciary committee weeks before he was killed. he'd gotten it through the judiciary committee. the moon program, he was the one with saturn rockets. jackie said after he been killed she wanted his initials secretly putting on because he knew and she knew that that was the one that is going to pass the union to get us to the man. in terms of our competition for support in the third world, which is a kennedy was all about, winning the competition with the soviet union without a third world war and the whole strategy, the peace corps, the alliance for progress, special forces don't let it be escalated to the point of a nuclear conflict. that was his great strength getting it through the war. i don't know how no one else can
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investigate and not see the miraculous ability of that president kennedy to set us on a course to win the cold war without a word. that's what i believe he did. in terms of economic policy, however a spry man, the tax cuts with republicans and in those criticize. i think its record is pretty darn good. in fact, advocate a fake medicare. a lot of these things are his. i think he would've had a very good second term. i think a big paddy in this regard. >> host: by the way, martin luther king jr. covering. and the second was john kennedy in june of 1963 collaborated with sorenson. i invite people to go and get it from the university of virginia. you can put it up on your computer and listen to the
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speech. >> guest: the power the president to go in the middle of a fight with wallace and the university of alabama. in the midst of that he did have the upper hand by then. they go and save its fundamental as the bible. the moral issue -- that's what johnston encouraged him to do. for a president, african-americans have had, many today still, on their wall. a picture of bobby and that cooking. i don't think chris was there. in all fairness to the younger critics, i don't did he can understand the early 60s without knowing how tough the fight for civil rights was. federal troops -- >> host: and alabama. >> guest: you have to do it
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that way. you have the freedom riders. young jewish kid from north were killed and buried alive. this was an amazing struggle. everyone talks about vietnam. you and i know the real struggle began and ended for civil rights. it was domestic. >> host: i think you're right. i covered michael dukakis' campaign. he gave a little talk in town, never mention the three civil rights workers would then murdered nearby. i think a lot of us could have decided. let me go back to decide that you did, did well, did right or better for it. that may be. let's start at the beginning. joint chiefs took an at the bay of pigs. let's talk about that. >> guest: this is what the president learned the worst way by failure. here's what happened. the policy of cia supported a
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supposed by the joint chiefs come which were going to take a group of middle-class immigrants who were living in miami. a lot of them were censored doctors themselves. they were just good people who wanted to take our country back. retraced 1600. it was on to cover. these are two cuban heroes. the plane was to get them on the beach somewhere to the end of rows time, perhaps to overthrow back in guatemala in the early part, this something that just magically create an incredible terminal. and all of a sudden all of a sudden the middle class would overthrow castro. well that was the idea. the trouble is they kept changing the landing base, so some family was so remote. kennedy wanted to keep the life of a down. he never has the most important
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question. how many regular cuban troops would be there the first day? that's all you have to ask. the answer? 25,000. once you know that, you know 25,000 defenders of their country and their revolution are damned well going to meet 1500 guys. so then he was told to establish balance. nobody told kennedy and kennedy never asked. 80 miles of swamp separated that each. so kennedy never has the critical question. i think what happened and this is to criticize them. for the first time in life he was boss. he was the boss among the crowds in high school, his girlfriends and friends. all of a sudden the cia is running the operations. and he's just a part of that. he's the commander-in-chief. you're making a good criticism and endocrine. he didn't know he was the boss.
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he did know it's his job to ask all the tough questions and the people were going to give the right answers. it turns out as operations chief lie to the cuban exile sanity that meant trouble, which he must figure your going to, we are coming with got. this is just sort of a detonator cap. and they never told that to kennedy. so kennedy is conduct a couple days. they say mr. president, we have to go in. at that point can be realizes he's president and says no. that was the most important. >> host: should you said yes? guest of the most important decision was to stand up when mckitrick into a worth to the because kennedy knew there were thousands of soviet troops. he would've had to go to work them and killed them. as he put it, what devices kill a bunch of russians. somebody says nothing. they warned about the money. you go there, i'm going for
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berlin. he learned. >> host: with it to berlin, bullets cut through vienna. after the bay of pigs he's thinking i can take this kid. and he brutalize kennedy. >> guest: he said i told him they would be 70 million to people killed in a nuclear war. he says yeah, what else is new? here's another one. kennedy couldn't believe it. he never met another person is nuclear war. and that did shake them. we take anyone. he came back and said i met a man whose want to face nuclear war over berlin. i could come back after that and say, well, you should've stood at. well, he had the upper hand in terms of strategic weapons. i 61 comments you read the manifesto coming out in
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january 61, you wouldn't be messing. at that point i had two rockets coming towards the moon. they had headed towards africa and the rest of the world. if we wanted to fight, they were ready to fight and that's what was different. it'd be careful with the russians about berlin because kennedy said every community that berlin was with a nuclear war. it is easier to say that the fighting nuclear work. and he and i don't think he wanted to fight. he wanted to avoid nuclear words. >> host: august of 61. every message possible we are going to abrogate. we are going to normalize, change can recognize these germans developed that. and now here comes the law. that camp atlantic -- >> guest: he is a real credit.
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>> host: he's written a book called berlin 61. kennedy was wrote once again. we should have not done that. >> host: and then with? >> guest: that's the point. i think the most important question is to always ask whether the israelis suggested problem of iran. but is the second step? here's the way kennedy looks at the whole thing over berlin. with 15,000 nato forces. guess how many russians? 350,000. the minute they rolled towards berlin, we would have a choice and west berlin and a matter of hours, which would've been horrific for europe. kennedy said i'm not going because that is horrible. it puts us in a position of launching a third world war. and i could just say with a tremendous sense of command, just say no. while that may work and it might
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not. but as time went on, it became more likely that it would work. the russians knew we wouldn't use nuclear weapons. by the way, i'm not sure that britz did. so in the end it wasn't really a good laugh. that's a canny realize. we wouldn't blow up the world over this. he decided he had to do something about it and began to realize the best thing that ever happened was first of all fulbright started saying to the chairman of the foreign relations committee but that was the key signal to the russians. okay, cut off these berlin. we can live with that. just don't take west berlin. he signaled to them pretty clearly, take what you have to take to protect your soviet realm and you don't want anywhere workers clean to the west. to which you have to do, but nowhere. it's easy to say or for anyone to argue and say we should've been tough. it leads to consequences.
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any other story would've been better off in the nuclear war. outside of that is the russians back down or we got down there neither side backs down. if you're kennedy had gotten from all of this was world war i, world war ii, world war iii, the national progression is each site does what it feels it has to do step-by-step. you create a situation where both sides find themselves killing each other over something that both sides want to do. and that is where presidents differ from historians. >> host: we will continue on the major points. but now come a little diversion back to presentation. i remember going to the news conference. it would mean think about asking a question in the auditorium. to be at the back of the room. but we think about the way it. and the questions were usually pretty soft, but not always he said he couldn't have thought of answers in the time it took to
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get there. but he had this kind of wit that everyone concentrated on. you cut your finger. how did she do that? in the kitchen, something like that. >> guest: it's rare in politics to have a winning politician. clinton was a good time, but he wasn't funny. he wasn't witty. stevenson was funny and witty. politicians try to avoid. for some reason, the irish background with his wit didn't seem to be too urbane, that it was signed. it wasn't clunky. of those press conferences for a tree. they were on in prime time because even those days it was all kennedy self-confident. the thought of going on at 9:00 at night or everyone would watch. there's only the three channels. but everybody watched the press conferences than they were on.
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you're right. by the way, one of the reasons i really wanted to write this book as they came across a guy named pehrson, probably republican. he said i'm not going to talk about kennedy as a president. he's a good up there, but he was great company. he says, you know, we're stuck over there with no showers, no movies. then the moment you talk to the other guys and guys willing to listen and laugh at your jokes until good stories. they had to be good guys. they said kennedy was great company. here's a guy what to write about. winston churchill was drinking one night late into the night as the chimes at midnight. he says the more church that will become churchill. that's what i wanted to find. >> host: i remember. i'm paraphrasing. of course there is a reelection at some point. there's a tough job.
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you recommend others trying to be brothers? he said yes, but not yet. all right. just go the timing and the census self-deprecation. remember he was running that these working guys in cambridge, mass. back in 46. they knew the neighborhood. he would begin to write his memoirs. but he said they are all telling test stories. he finally said i guess i'm the only one here that didn't work its way up the hard way. and then he just laughs it off. okay he's funny. >> host: that reminds me of what reagan has to say. he says hard work never killed anybody. why take a chance. let's go to 1962. forget the bay of pigs, berlin, whatever you think of. now we have a real problem. maybe thermonuclear war. it's a 13 days and not covert
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after discovering there is soviet missiles with nuclear warheads rapidly trying -- which with that nice. house guest go there and not defensive missiles. they were for real. >> guest: at first are going to hit them. didn't happen that way. >> guest: the people who wanted to strike included kennedy in the beginning and then later on as george bundy who wanted to level the country and should be admirable. then they were altogether. if you see a good movie, it's excellent. >> host: that was by roger donelan. >> guest: the theater where the red states since you know, during a tough spot, mr. president. the president comes back and walks out of the room and he had no defends him. he said you cut the rug right out from under them.
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they were determined to go and take those missiles down when they discovered them. they also recognize you at triple-a partners. you've got to knock out the aircraft installations and the grounds rockets. and so you have to do a lot. you have to do a full invasion. at kennedy is looking at that same but a minute. they're going to fight. turns out some other things we didn't know. this is what i was able to discover, which really makes the case. this is excellent about the facts. if we join in -- this is what he wrote in his memoirs. by the way, maxwell told the press that we can't get him off. if we go in, look at baby x%. but there'll be 10% less than we can get it and they're going to fire us. so what do we do? kennedy said were not going to allow a situation where they
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attack us and then we have to attack the. it is attack by the soviet union on a. it will be required to full response. so what does that say. it turns out the cruise ship is ready from his then to act. this is the scary part of any chain reaction of great consequence has to be considered here. if i had any missiles left, even a couple big ones, talking like a little kid come a couple good ones, i was going to a d. chord. i might not cut everybody, but it would've killed a lot of people and i would attack america what it was like to fight a war in its own territory. they are again had he done that, we would have had a straight. we would've gone for the full straight. so what kennedy was looking out was a couple things. first of all, i do want them to strike. i don't want them to use their
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missiles on us because then we returned the straight. he also i think wanted to deal in the way undercover. so he did two things. he said at the immediate threat of action. the quarantine so as some accuse the missiles. and then he cut a secret deal does is soviet. hubby went to see. i'm the only thing that's different is in the movie he went over and actually saw them at the justice department. they had to cram pictures and bobby for the first time in his life did not take an sop and start getting about communism. he said we've got to save this planet. the word got back to khrushchev that although we couldn't publicly trades their missiles for missiles amended and he would remove the british missiles from turkey quietly in a couple of months if they could keep the secret.
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so is a combination of churchill and chamberlain. but they test stands and a secret collaboration. kennedy said i couldn't limit myself. despite what takes place over turkey's missiles. he was able to do the difference. >> host: in a deal to save us from going into nuclear work. today you can make it just to keep the government open. >> guest: i think one really, not to sell the book is an useful tool, but i think a lot of presidents elections should be a consequences. every kind of journalist asked bush e.g. as? and what would happen then? and what to expect that the man? the the calculation that he made? if they say i don't care company should be president. you have to care what would happen next. >> host: you want a president who knows how to play chess. we have about six or seven minutes left. we come to november 22nd. oswald acted alone.
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he was a civil shooter. but anything behind him? >> guest: i don't know. i made a point in my book not to read about his name come to even put his name in a boat. i wanted to bring kennedy right up to the edgecomest whitacre minicar and thanked him. i didn't earlier put. kennedy gave that morning the way life works. the income without knowing, you know not the day or the hour. we know our bible. the kennedy's getting up that morning saying we are going to go in with jacqui. he knows he's going into hospital territories because at least he was sent as ambassador to the u.n. they were filled with this horrible kennedy is a trader at a nixon of course wanting same kennedy has got a jump shot,
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just to taunt him, not a chance. not a chance because kennedy was then because it pushed for civil rights, cost himself any chance of getting mississippi, alabama. probably not south carolina. he was trying to hold them texas and the anti-civil rights environment. he also needed georgette. cities campaigning for money and for reelection. and as his traveling from fort worth to the airport, because money with the union guys, he's talking to jim wright and john connally saying, why is fort worth such a good show dog democrat tom and 3060%? what i like about my vote if it shows jack kennedy the political career and he was explaining that corrected the entry to be good population so he gets done what he needs to get done. jim wright explains it all for the newspaper clip, the media.
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he said the daily press just that this anti-liberal, anti-kennedy mindset in the city of dallas. john connally was far more sophisticated. he said it do with the economy of the two cities. fort worth was a town where people -- men and women worked next to each other, voted as a working-class or middle-class working-class crowd. they would work in corrals, stockyards, doing the same thing, regular people. high-rises, finance, everyone is wearing a white shirt to work and they want to work the next lawyer, one work the way it in management level, the ones they want to be like in the years that had. guess who was like that? john connally because he became a republican. the other type of the populace and. and as we


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